Hat dating help

[Tamzzyn]

Hi all!

Picked this up today for a couple of dollars at a thrift store. Does anyone have any info about this hat? The style? The material used (what is the black decoration made from - a type of feather?)? What date? The label says John Fredrics Inc. New York.

Thanks!

 

[196t's]

Apparently, there was a design house called John Frederics in business from 1929 to 1948. It was the result of a partnership.
From a New York Times article dated OCT. 25, 1964:

In his hat‐selling days in Germany, Mr. John Frederics had become acquainted with a young hat designer named John Harberger. In 1929 they decided to go into partnership as JohnFrederics, Inc. They opened a millinery shop in one room over Delman's shoe store on Madison Avenue in the Fifties, just as the Depression approached.

From a Met Museum description of a JohnFrederics hat:

During World War II, traditional materials used in millinery such as silk and wool were rationed for use by the military. Therefore, millinery designers had to adapt the "make do" attitude and be creative with materials, sometimes employing unusual choices. This whimsical design by successful milliner John P. John of John Frederics, Inc., personifies this attitude, incorporating pipe cleaners, strands of sequins and braided straw to fashion a twisted swirl.

From the same New York Times article:

The John‐Frederics partnership lasted for about 20 years. Then Mr. Frederics went into business under his own name, and Mr. Harberger set up shop as Mr. John, Inc., calling himself John P. John.

Mr. John Frederics passed away in October 24th, 1964.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

That is a great hat. I would date it to the mid 1940s, Those are indeed feathers, although they are not a naturally occurring plume. They are either ostrich or vulture/rhea (more likely) feathers which have been chemically treated to resemble egret plumage. Rally nice ones too.

Actually, both of those above cited sources, the NY times and the Met Museum have incorrect information. Even Wikepedia has some incorrect info. But to me that is not surprising. there is a bit of conflicting facts out there on the internet.

There was no actual person named John Frederics, it was a combination of both of their first names. In Germany Fred was born as (and known as) Frederic Hirst. Frederic Hirst came to America and later teamed up with John Harberger and they named the millinery partnership John-Frederics. At that time John did not use the name "John P. John" either.

When they split in the late 1940s, due to supposed "designing differences" Fred Hirst bought the rights to the use the name "John-Frederics" in his millinery and other designing. so as you can see, he did not "keep his name." John Herberger went on to start his own millinery Company of "Mr. John" and began to use (among other titles he gave himself), the name of John. P. John.

Fred Hirst did certainly go by the name "John-Frederics" after the split and was usually known by that name from that time onward. Perhaps that fact leads to the confusion.

One of my favorite Wikipedia inaccuracies about Mr. John is this: They say that he was a "humble" man. Nothing could be further from the truth! He was like the P.T. Barnum of hats and was a king of self-promotion. He even called himself "The Emperor of Fashion".

 

[Tamzzyn]

Thanks for the info - it's so interesting to learn about the different companies and the people behind the fashion!! I was so happy to find this today - it's in such pristine condition!